[|MiNi0n|]

Ok,

WTF is with this???:

From: Linus Torvalds
To: Neil Conway
Subject: Re: [PATCH] SMP race in ext2 - metadata corruption.
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:59:46 -0700 (PDT)
Cc: Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel At vger Dot kernel Dot org>

[ linux-kernel added back as a cc ]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Neil Conway wrote:
> > I'm surprised that dump is deprecated (by you at least ;-)). What to
> use instead for backups on machines that can't umount disks regularly?


Note that dump simply won't work reliably at all even in 2.4.x: the buffer
cache and the page cache (where all the actual data is) are not
coherent. This is only going to get even worse in 2.5.x, when the
directories are moved into the page cache as well.

So anybody who depends on "dump" getting backups right is already playing
Russian roulette with their backups. It's not at all guaranteed to get the
right results - you may end up having stale data in the buffer cache that
ends up being "backed up".

Dump was a stupid program in the first place. Leave it behind.

> I've always thought "tar" was a bit undesirable (updates atimes or
> ctimes for example).

Right now, the cpio/tar/xxx solutions are definitely the best ones, and
will work on multiple filesystems (another limitation of "dump"). Whatever
problems they have, they are still better than the _guaranteed_(*) data
corruptions of "dump".

However, it may be that in the long run it would be advantageous to have a
"filesystem maintenance interface" for doing things like backups and
defragmentation..

Linus

(*) Dump may work fine for you a thousand times. But it _will_ fail under
the right circumstances. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I am trying to help someone out buy implementing a nice backup plan on a Redhat box and come across the above. How ugly is that! Ugh.

Looking for suggestions for a preferably free or low-cost backup util for the brain dead. Ease of use with scheduling and disaster recovery are critical here.

The Radhat doco suggest using amanda but it's not suitable. I won't go on a rant here about what I think about all this, I just wanna hit up you Linux guys that visit SE for some more tips.

TIA,

[v902]

Only problem with tar and cpio is that they start at *insert first block of partitio*> and go until there is free space or a corrupt block, the problem with this is files can be hidden like this and are commonly used and wouldn't provide a full backup (techniques like this are commonly used by kiddies to "hide" their things if you tared it and moved it to another box for inspecition :?, although you may think this is a good thing it may turn bad).

I personnally just have a partition where I regularrly back up /home to, or are you looking to backup / ?



EDIT: I have never had problems just zipping directories although I believe it has the same problem as tar and cpio.

[|MiNi0n|]

I personnally just have a partition where I regularrly back up /home to, or are you looking to backup / ?.

I'm looking at a full backup/restore plan for a business. Weekly full backups and nightly incrementals and full system backups for "bare metal" system recoveries in the event of the proverbial "disaster" . This is all beyond the capabilities of tar and cpio.

[Strog]

BRU backup from Tolis (http://www.tolisgroup.com) is a flexible, easy to use and has a graphical frontend for the warm and fuzzy feeling. You can do raw data partitions if you are concerned with the possible issues of tar/cpio/etc.

It's around $65 for personal edition which is plenty for single systems. You can go all the way up to the Pro version for $850 and do a lot of the enterprise things if your requirements get that out of hand. We use the workstation edtion($320) on a webserver here and it works like a champ. I didn't really think we needed the workstation edition but you get what you inherit. The GUI frontend is nice for making the non-*nix mangement feel good. We never use it since everything is cron'ed and email the logs.

[|MiNi0n|]

BRU backup from Tolis

Kewl. Thx strog. I saw this one and like the price of the Personal Edtion but are you aware of any obvious missing features in the PE edition vs. the others?

[Strog]

This is a personal thing and not a business, right?

The personal edition is only licensed for non-commercial use. If you are using it in a commercial enviroment then you need to goto desktop edition. The main drawback between desktop edition and workstation edition seems to be the ability to backup to a remote tape drive and it adds some support for backing up remote NFS, SMB, Atalk shares.

[|MiNi0n|]

This is a personal thing and not a business, right?

Errrr... right :twisted:

The main drawback between desktop edition and workstation edition seems to be the ability to backup to a remote tape drive and it adds some support for backing up remote NFS, SMB, Atalk shares.

Sweet. Not needed. And, as long as I can cron that sucker as you say should suit my needs beautifully.

Cheers.