[tarballed]

Alright. Im going to start a thread that has the potential to have some good debates in it. Im looking forward to seeing what people post here.

I was curious as to what peoples opinions are on the IT industry these days. More specifically, what are peoples opinions on certain skills, technologies to learn to make themselves more marketable.

For instance, should one learn Microsoft, Open Source, Database, Programming etc. Even more so, what specifically should someone conentrate on. For example, lets say someone said "Learn Programming!" Ok, what language would you suggest.

I'd like to hear some comments and suggestions here. One thing I always try to do is stay current with news and technologies so when the time comes for me to move, my resume will looks nice and spiffy with all the goodies that stand out when a recruiter takes a look at it.

So, what do you say?

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[Kernel_Killer]

I hate to see more and more MCSEs entering this world. Microsoft does hold a huge portion of the business market, but that will all change. These people that are just studying for M$ products will not be able to continue working forever. Since M$ is going to try to do like Apple and incorperate UNIX into their next OS, these people will have learn new skills for M$ products.

My thought on this issue is, If you are going to learn a commercial OS and get certified in that area, at least consider Solaris or HP-UX. At least then you will know how to Use the software provided in numerous operating systems, and how they work.

If you are going to learn programming, IMO you should learn C & C++. These two are like the "duct tape" of the IT industry. Another would be assembly. Yeah, yeah. It's old and might seem useless, but they are starting to push the 8th Generation CPU big time, and the assembly code is completely different. Just some thoughts.

[tarballed]

You know whats interesting is that most employeers look for people with MCSE's. I would say a good 70% or more of MCSE holders cant do squat when it comes to administration. And schools keep pumping them out. It is really quite sad.

I've developed a strong interest in Open Source when I first started using it a little over a year ago. Since then, i've been using Linux and *BSD, but i've always had a strong interest in HP-UX. Not sure why, but it really does sound intriguing to me.

Besides that, I like to work with Cisco as well. I enjoy working with routers and switches. Add's some spunk to my day.

Ya, i'd definitely like to learn some languages. C, C++ and Perl all sound like solid languages to learn.
Databases are a definite plus as well.

Hell, just learn everything!!! :D

So I try and gauge the market and go from there.

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[soup4you2]

It's not that the MCSE Jockey's are complete idiots... ok well maybe most of them are.. but like a buddy of mine has a MCSE and all these other certs and he cant even put a dimm stick in right..

These schools are concentrating too much on the philosophy of how the OS works than actually teaching them howto use it.. and they never really talk about what to do when windows does what it's good at and crash..

The last company i worked for we would ask each person interviewing 1 question that would tell us if he's a good tech or a Paper jockey..

What 3 files with out replacing your shell boots a computer into dos.

i was amazed about the amount of people who could not answer this.. although the question might not really apply to todays pc world but the logic begind it was to help us find people who's hobbies were computers and actually knew how things worked.. instead of people who just decided to get into computers because they heard 1 too many m$ comercials on the radio saying how much money you make as a administrator..

i'm also wondering why mcse jokey's think their gods gift to shit and look down upon the unix users...

well all i gotta say is ARP ME BABY!!

[elmore]

i'm also wondering why mcse jokey's think their gods gift to shit and look down upon the unix users...

well all i gotta say is ARP ME BABY!!

Yeah I can't understand that either. Weird stuff! Most windows people I know are super happy in their ignorant bliss. Go figure. RFC's don't know who cares. You mean people run other Operating Systems?!?

And oh yeah, I already enumerated all the info I need from you Soup! ;)

[soup4you2]

Yeah I can't understand that either. Weird stuff! Most windows people I know are super happy in their ignorant bliss. Go figure. RFC's don't know who cares. You mean people run other Operating Systems?!?

And oh yeah, I already enumerated all the info I need from you Soup! ;)


hehe i think i know what your refering too...

other note..

i was talking to one of the mcse techs on the floor above ours and i realized another point.. why do people think *nix is unsecure because of it's open source nature..

i try to explain that because it's open source it means flaws are more easily pointed out and the os becomes harder structured... but for some reason they never listen.. if m$ ever publishes their source there's going to be soooo many flaws discovered and thats probbibly a driving reason to why they dont.. they dont want people to really understand how crappy their coding is..

[tarballed]

Being that i've studied both Microsoft and *nix (Well, really learned *nix through work), but here is what I think.

My thoughts are that Unix/Linux administrators are much more resourceful as well as knowledgable in terms of understanding how things function. My thinking behind this is that, when you work with *nix, you really need to know how things work, and if something does go wrong and you dont know how to fix it right away, you will eventually, by doing hard work.

I think *nix forces you to be better at your job and understand a wide variety of things. For example, since i've been working with *nix and open source, I really believe that my understanding of a wide variety of things has sky rocketed. Where as when I studied Microsoft (yes yes..i know, believe me, I wish I could go back in time and change it) I felt as thought I was in Utah. In the sense that when working with Windows, they make you feel as though there is nothing else outside of Windows and Windows was the only thing you needed. Sorta like the way mormons make you think there is nothing better than Utah. (I hope I dont offend anyone...I myself am from Utah. :) )

I strive every day to learn something new, to fine tune my skills, to be very good at what i do. I dont want to be just another "admin", I want to be an exceptional admin. I think *nix allows you to do that.

So know, I want to learn as much as I can within reason. hehehe

Ok, im done rambling.

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[KrUsTy!]

What I've found about many MCSE people is that they don't want to know how it works, just as long as they can make it work. This is the "what button do I click" syndrome that microsoft has produce in the world. There are many people that go along happily in life and really don't care how the magic happens, just as long as it works. This isn't all of them, but unfortunately its the good majority of the MCSEs. The peice of paper means they are "qualified", not what they know.

The mircosoftification of the world..... Very sad....

If you were looking to get certifications to pad the resume up a bit, I would get some of the cisco qualifications. They teach good stuff, and there equipment is everywhere. And the much of the stuff is transferable, meaning that the concepts of routing, layer 3 vlans, etc. are not just for cisco products, but networking in general. The "how" you do it on cisco will be different from other products, but once you undertsand routing, details like commands to make it work can be learned very quickly. I think that the cisco training goes more into the "how" does it work.

Microsoft training is extactly the opposite, "just click here, and here, and it works!". Not a transferable piece of knoweldge if you don't know how or why it works....

For example as the email admin for my company, I got many calls from other company's email admins wondering why my company was refusing their email. I would say " becuase your email server has been blacklisted in the RBL that I use because it says your server is an open relay". Most of them would then ask "what's an open relay?". By this answer I could always instantly know that this person was running exchange and was microsoft trained. They just knew what buttons to press to make it work, but didn't know anything about email! When I got answers of "I AM? What RBL list?" then I knew I was dealing with someone who was knoweldgable. That almost always meant they were not running exchange, but some other MTA.

So I guess the point of what I'm saying is that if you want to increase you knoweldge of things, MCSE training is likely not to help much. I quite honestly don't think that an MSCE does much good on a resume, but maybe thats because if one of the requirements for a job is an MCSE, then I'm not likely applying for that job anyway! :D

Cisco stuff like the CCNA, CCNP, I think those are good. From a security standpoint i hear that the CSSIP is good, but I have not done it myself. Programing is always good stuff to know, and I'm hoping to learn some C and C++ someday as well.

{K}

[Kernel_Killer]

It's not that the MCSE Jockey's are complete idiots... ok well maybe most of them are.. but like a buddy of mine has a MCSE and all these other certs and he cant even put a dimm stick in right..

I've gotta agree with you there, but only about 95% of MCS* peeps really know what they are doing. Most of them are just getting it to get money. No passion involved at all. Sad. :cry:

[code:1:a60e56da1a]These schools are concentrating too much on the philosophy of how the OS works than actually teaching them howto use it.. and they never really talk about what to do when windows does what it's good at and crash.. [/code:1:a60e56da1a]

This is more than correct. Why teach something no one will really understand if they don't get their feet wet? Before I started using Linux and UNIX, I thought I knew my theory, but then when I started using it more of it came familiar and made a lot more sence!! One tech at the local University actually has more respect for Di-low Linux/UNIX users than any MCS* or person with a Degree. His thought is, "Those people know what actually goes on in a system. Not how to execute, but how it executes." This is more than true.

Make that point, why don't schools teach UNIX? Well, mainly due to the lack of instuctors that actually know it. The ones who do are making twice as much for a corperation.

i'm also wondering why mcse jokey's think their gods gift to shit and look down upon the unix users...

Oh man. I swear there are subliminal messages in the screen refresh on every Win OS saying "You are now God! Make everyone believe that!".

This past weekend in KC, my cousin proved that something boosts their ego skyhigh. Nothing like a MCSE talking down about me to my face, and having his Dad try to do the same also. It doesn't take much to talk them down. :P