[elmore]

I posted this thread in the moderators forum that we have earlier and have spoken to most of the moderator team and as such I thought I would propose this new forum layout to everyone to get some other ideas opinions and any other thought anyone would like to provide.

Essentially I want to give the site a little update and make it a little clearer for everyone on where to appropriately post topics. A little refinement if you will.

Without further adue, here's the proposed new forums list:

Screaming Electron
Site News
Feedback
Anything Goes

OpenBSD
OpenBSD General Configuration and Security
OpenBSD Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
OpenBSD ports and Packages
OpenBSD News, and Articles

FreeBSD
FreeBSD General Configuration and Security
FreeBSD Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
FreeBSD Ports and Packages
FreeBSD News, and Articles

Other BSD's
NetBSD Forum
NetBSD News and Articles
All Other BSD's
News, and Articles about other BSD's

General Technical Discussions
pf Forum
Apache
Postfix
Other Software
Programming and Scripting Forum
Network/Routing Forum
Hardware Forum
IDS Forum
Book Forum
General Questions Forum

How-To's FAQS and Testimonials
How-to's
FAQS
Testimonials

[v902]

I think we should still have a script corner where people can put useful scripts that they use... Other then that it looks and sounds good...

[Kernel_Killer]

I do like the layout, but having the scripts seperated from the programming sounds like a good idea. Give it another year, and it will be a PITA trying to find a script in a merged forum. Just a thought.

[Former Member]

I think we should wait a while, I know my opinion holds little weight atm due to my time here, though in some respects its a point of view that few of you can see. Right now the forum is growing, and apart from one noticeable user, the forum is bulging with talent and EFFORT.

You're doing a great job guys, you don't need to change anything

[elmore]

Thanks Splick!

Hrmmm, lots of members visiting this forum daily yet only 4 votes....

[jedaffra]

Ok, for OpenBSD you currently have this:

OpenBSD

>OpenBSD General Configuration
>OpenBSD Kernel Configuration
>OpenBSD Filesystem Support
>OpenBSD Ports and Packages
>Installing OpenBSD
>OpenBSD General
>OpenBSD Security

You're proposing this:
OpenBSD

>OpenBSD General Configuration and Security
>OpenBSD Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
>OpenBSD ports and Packages
>OpenBSD News, and Articles

I'm suggesting this:
OpenBSD

>Filesystem & Kernel Configuration
>General Configuration & Installation
>News & Articles
>Ports & Packages
>Security & PF

Here's why:

1. First off, remove the word OpenBSD from the beginning of each section (for the sake of redundancy) as these titles fall under the OpenBSD 'area'.

2. General configuration is, well, configuration that is of a general nature. However, security configuration is more specific and important than just general configuration. I believe these two are strange bedfellows and don't make a logical fit. However, you're proposed changes did leave out the Installation section, a section which is important to many people. Therefore, I think Installation is a better fit with General Configuration than Security.

3. Pair Security with PF. I realize PF has been broken out of the OpenBSD section but lets think about that for a minute. Who came up with PF? Why OpenBSD of course. This in itself makes it logical to put the PF section back under OpenBSD. PF is also an important security feature of OpenBSD, hence my suggestion to pair Security with PF.

4. File System & Kernal Config: Logical

5. Ports & Packages: Very logical

6. News & Articles: A great idea

7. Last but not least, put the list in alphabetical order using the first letter of the first word etc. I suggest this because I'm anal and think it looks professional (which may or may not be something to aspire to)...

:) :) :)

[elmore]

Great points Jedaffra. With regards to pf it was broken out of OpenBSD because it has been ported to both FreeBSD and NetBSD. Also we have a partnership with SolarfluX's pf-r (the pf repository) and that was part of the deal that I made with him.

Though I'll have to think about this, you bring up good very good points. Thanks! :)

[frisco]

3. Pair Security with PF. I realize PF has been broken out of the OpenBSD section but lets think about that for a minute. Who came up with PF? Why OpenBSD of course. This in itself makes it logical to put the PF section back under OpenBSD. PF is also an important security feature of OpenBSD, hence my suggestion to pair Security with PF.

How about "Firewalls and Other Security" that way you can have the same forum in other OS's and it covers those who might want to discuss ipf in OpenBSD-current.

Also, how about generalizing the "Apache", "Postfix", and "Mysql" forums to "Web Servers", "Mail Servers" and "Databases"?

[bsdjunkie]

Also, how about generalizing the "Apache", "Postfix", and "Mysql" forums to "Web Servers", "Mail Servers" and "Databases"?



Sounds good here...

[elmore]

I also think those are good suggestions frisco! Thanks.

So how about we now do something like this:


Screaming Electron
Site News
Feedback
Anything Goes

OpenBSD
General Configuration and Installation
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

FreeBSD
General Configuration and Security
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

Other BSD's
NetBSD
NetBSD News and Articles
All Other BSD's
News and Articles about other BSD's

General Technical Discussions
Firewalls and Security
Web Servers
Mail Servers
Databases
Other Software
Programming
Networking and Routing
Hardware
Intrusion Detection
Book Review Corner
General Technical Questions

How-To's FAQs and Testimonials
How-to's
FAQS
Testimonials
Scripts

I think this does a good job of incorporating most everyone's suggestions so far.
I'll sort the list when I get home. I think that things should be listed in some sort of logical order but... for the SE Category News, Feedback and Anything Goes seems to be an appropriate order to me.

I think the OpenBSD/FreeBSD categoriess also show some appropriate order, i.e you install first, then tune your filesystem / build your new kernel, then add packages and build ports, and finally read articles to help keep you up to date as to what's going on with the O.S.

The technical discussions Category and the How-to's / FAQ /Testimonial Category I suppose should be ordered differently. Perhaps Alphabetical as Jedaffra suggests?

ANyone have anymore comments?

[socomm]

I voted yes on the idea of consilidating/reorganizing/rarranging the forums, not necessarily all the suggestions so far. Though most of the ideas so far sound pretty fair hope it works out in the end :).

[hugh nicks]

maybe we could add a section for me :wink: cause i'm gonna need all the help i can get.

-hn

p.s. i voted yes.

[bmw]

Also, how about generalizing the "Apache", "Postfix", and "Mysql" forums to "Web Servers", "Mail Servers" and "Databases"?

I second that (being partial to PostgreSQL).

I also suggest adding: "Performance, Tuning and High-End Applications"

"This is where we talk about how to get the most out of Gigabit cards and RAID arrays, etc."


Everyone here is downloading DVDs via gigabit links into their terabyte arrays, right? :-)

[elmore]

Everyone here is downloading DVDs via gigabit links into their terabyte arrays, right? :-)

I got my NetApp 840 right here! with 1.5 terra's online!

I'm snapmirroring it up to |MiNi0n| every 15 minutes!

hehe, man don't I wish!

Good suggestion on the forum! Thanks!

[frisco]

I think the OpenBSD/FreeBSD categoriess also show some appropriate order, i.e you install first, then tune your filesystem / build your new kernel, then add packages and build ports, and finally read articles to help keep you up to date as to what's going on with the O.S.


OpenBSD has "General Configuration and Installation" and no "Security" mentioned anywhere while FreeBSD has "General Configuration and Security" and no "Installation" mentioned anywhere. Want to combine them into "General Installation, Configuration and Security"?



The technical discussions Category and the How-to's / FAQ /Testimonial Category I suppose should be ordered differently. Perhaps Alphabetical as Jedaffra suggests?


Since tech discussions is a broad category, i suggest organizing it conceptually. Perhaps:
Mail Servers
Web Servers
Databases
Other Software
Programming
Network and Routing
Firewalls and Security
Intrusion Detection
Hardware
Book Review Corner
General Technical Questions

For FAQ's et al, alphabetically sounds good.

How about moving "Scripts" into the General Tech section (right after Programming, i'd put it) and moving "Book Review Corner" to "FAQs et al"?

[elmore]

OpenBSD has "General Configuration and Installation" and no "Security" mentioned anywhere while FreeBSD has "General Configuration and Security" and no "Installation" mentioned anywhere. Want to combine them into "General Installation, Configuration and Security"?



That's actually a typo on my part both FreeBSd and OpenBSD forum layouts should be the same. What can I say I was in a hurry this afternoon. My fault. We can do General Installation, Configuration and Security. That's an idea.

[molotov]

This is a good idea, as in my limited experience there are serveral generally unsed formus that this would elimiate, actually reducing the amount of stuff new users had sift through.

[hugh nicks]

I got my NetApp 840 right here! with 1.5 terra's online!

840? get with the times! I have the NetApp 6000 with 6CPU's and a Peta of RAM.

mmmm...petabytes.

-hn

[dave]

My only suggestion would be to consolidate the scripts and programming into one group that you could possibly expand on later as I'm sure we have many coders within this forum and it could be handy to have a place where newbies could get help with scripts and programming of any *nix language. But yeah, looks great, keep it up!

[jedaffra]

That's actually a typo on my part both FreeBSd and OpenBSD forum layouts should be the same. What can I say I was in a hurry this afternoon. My fault. We can do General Installation, Configuration and Security. That's an idea.

Nah, I'd say do it like you planned it (minus the typo)

OpenBSD/FreeBSD
>Installation & General Configuration
>Filesystem & Kernel Configuration
>Ports & Packages
>News & Articles

General Technical Discussions
>Firewalls & Security
>Web Servers
>Mail Servers
>Databases
>Other Software
>Programming
>Networking & Routing
>Hardware
>Intrusion Detection
>Book Review Corner
>General Technical Questions

As pf has been ported to the other BSD's lets have the security discussions within the General Technical Discussions area. Leave Installation & General Configuration unto themselves.

my 0.02 :)

[Former Member]

Screaming Electron
Site News
Feedback
Anything Goes
IRC

OpenBSD
General Configuration and Installation
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

FreeBSD
General Configuration and Security
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

Other BSD's
NetBSD
NetBSD News and Articles
All Other BSD's
News and Articles about other BSD's

General Technical Discussions
Firewalls and Security
Web Servers
Mail Servers
Databases
Other Software
Programming
Networking and Routing
Hardware
Intrusion Detection
Book Review Corner
General Technical Questions

How-To's FAQs and Testimonials
How-to's and FAQs
Testimonials
Script Corner

Changes in name and additions are italic..... just thought id give the idea a chance....

[elmore]

Splick what would we put in the irc forum? A dump of the previous nights log maybe? Interesting idea. Strog logs irc I know.

The idea about combining the FAQs with the how-to's is good as well but as we only have one FAQ right now and it is specific to SE it's not really a how-to. Though I might put this elsewhere if other FAQs get written. (hint hint *cough*strog*cough*).

I like the idea of calling the book forum the book review corner. Moving the scripts forum into the General Technical Discussions area also sounds good.

I do also like the idea of a Performance, Tuning and High-End Applications forum like bmw suggests. Anyone else have any opinions on that?

Let me think about this for a little while and I'll post another revision to the proposed forum layout and see what everyone thinks.

[frisco]

I do also like the idea of a Performance, Tuning and High-End Applications forum like bmw suggests. Anyone else have any opinions on that?

Seems like that would be more appropriate under the other forums. Recompiling your kernel, FS tuning, and database tuning all have appropriate forums. What else gets talked about so much that it couldn't also fall into "Other Software"?

[elmore]

yeah that's a good point frisco, per usual-

[hugh nicks]

what about a section called "Just Starting", or "Beginners" or something like that? A place where new members, or people new to *nix in general might post questions that they weren't sure where else to put them. I know there's an "Anything Goes", but some people might be intimidated with posting in unfamiliar places. I dunno, it just seems like a good idea to have something where you could ask a so called "stupid question", and everyone responding knows you have limited knowledge. Somewhere to really get your feet wet, but your not diving right in.
I know I was a little intimidated when I first joined, not from the members, but because I didn't want to make a dumb post, or ask a stupid question. Most bb's are really hard on people, so I thought it might be cool to have something that you can instantly reconize as being for you.

just a thought.

-hn

[elmore]

Most bb's are really hard on people, so I thought it might be cool to have something that you can instantly reconize as being for you.


Well it's a good idea, but in the FAQ it clearly states the board rules and the friendly nature that one shuold expect here. That's the whole point of this forum. To provide a productive environment for users of all levels.

Thanks for the suggestion hugh ;)

Also a significant number of new users receive pm's by me welcoming them. I used to do this for nearly every new member but now I don't just cause I haven't had the time. Though I still pm a significant number of new users and welcome them and explain the forum a bit.

[hugh nicks]

Also a significant number of new users receive pm's by me welcoming them.

How could I forget? I think I still have mine saved.*sniff

cheers :)

-hn

[socomm]

This is kinda offtopic but how about stickys pointing to resources that are directly linked to the forum( IE: FreeBSD hand book, Net/OpenBSD docs ). This would be extremely helpful to just point some of the newcomers to those links.

[Former Member]

Socomm: Do you mean something like a bookmark forum for each BSD?
Sounds rather nifty :)

Elmore: Anything really, I know there are alot of subjects spoken about in channel, sometimes we talk about one that sticks, sometimes its helping someone to install, anything :) chan statistics, chan log, user statistics, whip a little script up to count the lines of help offered. It would give you a benchmark to compare the forum against.

Maybe this is a time to bring up something everyone (coders) could contribute to, as we are talking about forum lay out. I've been trying to learn a language well enough to do this task, currently though, while being stalled by my graphics card failure, I haven't gained these skills. Maybe a php reader client? I'd go on with features n stuff but ya, idea only ;/

More FAQs, would a 'During Install, xxx?' FAQ be any use? I think I could start one, have folks add on to the end as well :)

[v902]

No socomm means a sticky topic, I think we are adding to many forums, I would like a little re-design, but IRC? Boomark forum (I know it was a sticky topic but for example etc.) Too much bloat.... I was turned away once by how big this place was once before I registered, do we really need to add bloat? Hell if it's a *BSD forum lets add some BSD philisophy [sic]

Elmore: Hell yeah, I remember the first time talking to you (I still have it saved :)) It was pretty cool and you came off (and you are :)) a nice guy...

[bmw]

[quote:36e357b77a="elmore"]
I do also like the idea of a Performance, Tuning and High-End Applications forum like bmw suggests. Anyone else have any opinions on that?

Seems like that would be more appropriate under the other forums. Recompiling your kernel, FS tuning, and database tuning all have appropriate forums.[/quote:36e357b77a]

True, but performance-tuning is a kind of holistic endeavour, where all the tweaks you do to the filesystem are complemented by tweaks to the database and more tweaks to the kernel.

If you spread that knowledge all around the BB, it's harder to find.

But it's not a biggee. A single summary HowTo posting would serve as well.

[bmw]

This just occurred to me: you could have a Security Issues forum where news of new threats, worms, and important security issues could be posted. It could also be a spot where security meta-issues are discussed.

Eg: the issue I just posted about no more security patches for Win98 would go there.

[elmore]

First off I'd like to thank everyone for their valued input. I really appreciate it. Ultimately it is the user-base that drives this place so ultimately it should be the user-base that decides the new layout of the forums IMHO.

Taking in as many suggestions as possible but still trying to make the forums more streamlined. Here's a final layout of what I think the new forums should look like. I'll take some final comments and then I'll start rearranging some things possibly as early as next week. It will take some time to rearrange the forums as we do have a significant number of post these days and it will take some time to go throughthem all. I'll say here in advance, thanks for putting up with the growing pains. I think it is a necessary and much needed evolving process of the site.

Screaming Electron
Site News
Feedback
Anything Goes

OpenBSD
General Configuration and Installation
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

FreeBSD
General Configuration and Installation
Filesystem and Kernel Configuration
Ports and Packages
News and Articles

Other BSD's
NetBSD
NetBSD News and Articles
All Other BSD's
News and Articles about other BSD's

General Technical Discussions
Firewalling Corner
General Security Stop
Scripting Shop
Web Servers
Mail Servers
Databases
Other Software
Programming
Networking and Routing
Hardware Store
Intrusion Detection Center
Book Review Corner
General Technical Questions

How-To's, FAQs and Testimonials
How-to's
FAQS
Testimonials

What does everyone think about this? Things to note, IRC will have a sticky thread in the anything goes forum, our wonderful moderator and resident irc member strog has agreed (in fact he already does) log the channel, I'll whip something up the week to mirror the logs on SE some place so we don't eat up his bandwidth.

I think strog (again) is working on a general BSD FAQ which will most likely include links to major sites and reference materials for newbies and even seasoned admins.

*strog if I'm wrong about the above let me know and I'll whip one up.

Anyways I think that's good. I like arrangement of the OpenBSD/FreeBSD forums and the Other BSD forums. I think the General Technical Discussions forum arrangement can be tweaked, as well as the how-to's, FAQs and Testimonials forum. Jedaffra suggested alphabetical which is fine but does anyone else have any suggested layout of these two categories?

[Former Member]

You could use sub-headings by editing the php, I've done it before though I'm not sure if this will be contradictive to the motivation behind re-organization as it would make the forum index look longer than it is.

** Sidenote on the statistics, the point scheme per user, I assume thats worked out over the entirity of the users stay here, could we not have weekly/fortnightly points scheme, and have the user in flashing lights lol...

**Sidenote(1) on links users, I've been thinking about this and almost every forum out there, doesn't cater for one of the best shell browsers around, which is wierd as *nix users seem to pride themselves on shell abilities... I was wondering if we could use the browser/OS option within html to load a plainer, easier php page for shell browsers. I'd be willing to do the work...

[elmore]

**Sidenote(1) on links users, I've been thinking about this and almost every forum out there, doesn't cater for one of the best shell browsers around, which is wierd as *nix users seem to pride themselves on shell abilities... I was wondering if we could use the browser/OS option within html to load a plainer, easier php page for shell browsers. I'd be willing to do the work...

I'll look around for a lynks "friendly" theme for phpBB. I'm sure there's one around.

[elmore]

So if no ones opposed to the last layout I made I think I'll get started on this, this weekend. Sound good to everyone?

[cod3fr3ak]

I know I am a bit late (been in Mexico) but I like it!